Guy Walks Into a Squat Rack ...

Comments For This Entry

Posted by Bryan Krahn at 11:20AM on November 01, 2009

Hey Lou,

I gave this article the initial edit before sending it off to you, and I remember having some issues with it.

Specifically, Boyle's split squat videos seem to advocate that the knee doesn't travel past the toe; which permits some of the heavy loads that he describes.

But I perform this lift the way I was taught by Poliquin: knee traveling well over the toe til hamstring touches calf. This greatly increases ROM (and next day soreness) but seriously reduces the load you can use.

Which is better? While I always like handling heavier weights, I find CP's method much more challenging; is that more effective? Who knows.

But Boyle's points regarding loading issues with back squats are well taken.

Bryan

Posted by Lou Schuler at 05:11AM on November 02, 2009

Those are good points, Bryan. ROM matters. Granted, the average guy doing back squats in a gym isn't going hams-to-calves either.

I can't go that low in either version. I can descend until the tops of my thighs are parallel to the floor in the back squat, but probably can't keep a neutral spine if I go much lower. And even if I could, my knees couldn't take the added stress.

I'm using front squats and rear-foot-elevated squats in my current program. My knees certainly prefer the latter, for what that's worth.

Posted by Joe at 07:37AM on November 03, 2009

Goodness me I never knew there was so much to know about squatting! Very interesting, thanks.

Posted by jamie hale at 08:46AM on December 08, 2009

"Although it didn't end up in the article, Todd told me that Eastern European Olympic weightlifters had abandoned heavy squats in favor of an exercise called the Bulgarian step-up. It's a step-up with a barbell on your shoulders, using a higher step than most of us would use for the conventional version of the exercise." Todd committed a logical fallacy- Hasty Generalization, saying that Eastern European Olympic Weightlifters had abandoned squats, maybe a few did, but the majority did not. Jim Wendler, of Elite Fitness Systems says, " EVERYONE knows that the Bulgarians did not abandon the squat in favor of step ups. THAT WAS A JOKE and taken seriously by American writers/coaches."

David Pursley, Olympic Weightlifting Coach & Member of the Olympic Weightlifting Hall of Fame, says, " There is no reason to have an Olympic lifter doing split squats (even during injury rehab) unless your goal is to prevent the athlete from reaching their pinnacle of performance."

"That's why, when the name-calling ends, I think Boyle's anti-squat position will end up in the mainstream of training philosophy and practice. Few people in gyms today need or want to load up for max efforts on back or front squats. I think most people will benefit from focusing more on split-stance lower-body exercises and less on bilateral exercises like back squats." Are you serious? I have spoken with many people who read the article and their response was not favorable regarding Boyle's suggestions. Maybe with time that will change? I don't think so, but I could be wrong.

Rippetoe commenting on Boyles suggestions, "The likelihood of Mike Boyle's article causing the wholesale abandonment of the squat is exactly the same as my disapproval of the consumption of soy causing chaos in the commodities markets tomorrow morning. It is irrelevant to the fact that squats, deadlifts, cleans, presses, and bench presses make weak people strong and Coach Boyle's program does not.

Be calm. Train as if this never happened and everything will be fine."

What about the tendency to round the back while performing split-stance lower body exercises? It is very common.

You don't have to load up on squats to receive benefits. I personally, use split style lower body exercises, and my athletes use them. But that does not mean they are superior to or should be substituted for squats. Of course if you hate squatting you don't have to perform the exercise.

There are no magic exercises, period!

Posted by EdM at 06:15PM on December 16, 2009

It seems that switching to split squats is substituting one limiting body part (lower back) for another (knees). Going to that extreme of an angle on a squat makes my knees and tendons hurt just thinking about it.

Posted by kolorowanki at 05:16PM on December 18, 2009

Interesting article Lou, Your blog is one of the most wonderful places to visit.

Posted by Lou Schuler at 04:45AM on December 23, 2009

Ed, that's an interesting observation. One thing I've discovered is that I can't do Bulgarian split squats with a barbell on my shoulders. It absolutely crushes my knees. But I can do them with a weight plate held against my chest, or even overhead, and not feel it in my knee joints at all.

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